Author Topic: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?  (Read 1527 times)

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Uli Zeun

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2019, 06:19:23 PM »
Frank,this model  does not appear in any known (until now) catalogue.The ocualr/eyepeice construction reminds me of a 15x60 for Signalgeraete I have

www.monocular.info/cz15x60blink.htm
So, Peter's Tela assumption may be right - some designs and forerunners for the later 15x60
The slender tube is similar to the one on this telesocpe:www.monocular.info/cz7x25p2.htm
This leaves the concial tuube with the tripod clamp a bit unusual for Zeiss. but why not.
Any other inscriptions?
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Frank Weissörtel

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2019, 11:04:30 PM »
Hi Simon,

thank you for your input.

What is the diameter of the objective and the approximate length of the instrument please?

The entire objective's diameter is 7.8 cm. The diameter of only the glass circle is 6.0 cm.
I have split the overall length into four parts. See the pic below.

Are there any serial numbers or indication of the magnification?

No serial numbers, no indication of magnification

Regards,
Frank

Niall McLaren

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2019, 11:18:37 PM »
Maybe the part you're unsure of is an eyeguard Frank? Try the filter on it and the other bit safely protects your other eye. ;)
"A little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing." - Little Richard

Frank Weissörtel

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2019, 11:22:15 PM »
Hi Junior,

thank you for your comments.

Perhaps also an early model (first series ?) of the Zeiss Tela?
http://www.monocular.info/cz12x15x20x24x60.htm

Yes, it could go into that direction, although I still believe in some kind of astronomical purpose. The diameter of this object matches the one of the Tela: 60 mm

Cheers,
Frank

Frank Weissörtel

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2019, 11:31:53 PM »
Hi Uli,

thank you.

So, Peter's Tela assumption may be right - some designs and forerunners for the later 15x60
What is the purpose of the hole in the shield cup and this pair of very strong absorbing light filters? Any clue?

Any other inscriptions?
Nope

Regards,
Frank

Frank Weissörtel

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2019, 11:50:23 PM »
Maybe the part you're unsure of is an eyeguard Frank? Try the filter on it and the other bit safely protects your other eye. ;)
Unfortunately, I cannot bring this part together with the filter. They don't fit.

I have the feeling that this set is not complete. Inside the case there is space foreseen for at least two smaller parts that probably are missing.

Uli Zeun

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2019, 05:58:06 PM »
 Hello Frank,
 
more food for thought.
 
Now that I see and know that you cannot screw together parts 2 and 3, one of my very first thoughts when I saw your pictures finds some more ground. Could it be that the ocular part is similar or something like my Carl Zeiss Jena 7x or 8x25 (www.monocular.info/cz7x25p2.htm) that may be some aiming or director scope for a Blinkgerät or gun, and the conical objective tube rather derives from some French Krauss, Fournier or other spotting scope like the triple eyepiece model or another with just one eyepiece --> www.monocular.info/krauss3oku.htm or www.monocular.info/krauss15x75.htm or 
www.monocular.info/fournier12x23x30x65.htm or www.monocular.info/fournier-triple.htm or www.monocular.info/zion15x75u-217.htm
 
An objective protective cap with a slider and smaller hole also is not too unusual for scopes to cut off too much light in bright weather conditions (like this one www.monocular.info/huet12x50art451b.htm), but not necessarily meant for astronomical use, i.e. her observing the sun.
 
I overlooked that the part you do not know its use of, was not attached to the prism housing. As I mentioned before, it is similar or the same as the prism cover plate part with an eyeshield of a CZJ 15x60 monocular I own (cf. pics). So, your part may be substituted to the prism cover plate in place at the moment.
 
At least both prism plates seem to originate from the same period of the floral Carl Zeiss Jena script.
 
Saying all this, the case with more empty compartments to take in other filters etc. may also come from a French spotting scope instead of a original Zeiss one.
 
Eventually, you may assume that someone tried to build a new telescope form some good telescope parts of that time.
 
When you hold all parts including 2 and 3 together, do you get a focused image?
 
 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 06:00:29 PM by Uli Zeun »
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Simon Tomlinson

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2019, 10:34:08 PM »
Hi Frank

My opinion is that the leather case and all the parts inside came from Zeiss. There are a lot of design similarities to other Zeiss instruments.

Would the prism screw onto the body without the use of part 3 and produce an image through the eyepiece?

Some Zeiss Astro telescopes could be used either with an erecting prism for terrestrial observation or without for astronomical observation, where the inverted image was less important than maximizing light transmission. An extension tube was sometimes required to make up the distance of the light path through the prism, when attaching the eyepiece without the erecting prism.

Of course, this would not explain why the eye shield part seems to be designed to swap with the existing prism cover, although this does not seem to be a very convenient design for the user and risks introducing dust into the optics. There seems to be one screw hole missing from the shield compared to the prism cover on the instrument. Could the extension tube, shield and eyepiece be fastened together to make an alternative to using the prism?

Looking closely at the photos, there might be a tiny number 3 stamped on the eye shield part.

Regards

Simon

Frank Weissörtel

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2019, 12:05:39 AM »
Hi Uli,

thanks again.

Now that I see and know that you cannot screw together parts 2 and 3, one of my very first thoughts when I saw your pictures finds some more ground. Could it be that the ocular part is similar or something like my Carl Zeiss Jena 7x or 8x25 (www.monocular.info/cz7x25p2.htm) that may be some aiming or director scope for a Blinkgerät or gun
Hm, maybe but there are design differences. In mine the surface of the plate is very plain.

and the conical objective tube rather derives from some French Krauss, Fournier or other spotting scope like the triple eyepiece model or another with just one eyepiece --> www.monocular.info/krauss3oku.htm or www.monocular.info/krauss15x75.htm or 
www.monocular.info/fournier12x23x30x65.htm or www.monocular.info/fournier-triple.htm or www.monocular.info/zion15x75u-217.htm
I rather think the conical part resembles more the one from the Zeiss Tela. In any case the conical part and the objective body (parts 1 and 2) build one unit.
 
An objective protective cap with a slider and smaller hole also is not too unusual for scopes to cut off too much light in bright weather conditions (like this one www.monocular.info/huet12x50art451b.htm), but not necessarily meant for astronomical use, i.e. her observing the sun.
Okay, interesting

I overlooked that the part you do not know its use of, was not attached to the prism housing. As I mentioned before, it is similar or the same as the prism cover plate part with an eyeshield of a CZJ 15x60 monocular I own (cf. pics). So, your part may be substituted to the prism cover plate in place at the moment.
Hm, I am not sure. The original plate on the housing has 3 screws, the other one has only 2. The two screws on each of the plates have equal distances, though (ca. 3.3 cm).
 
Saying all this, the case with more empty compartments to take in other filters etc. may also come from a French spotting scope instead of a original Zeiss one.
That could be true.

When you hold all parts including 2 and 3 together, do you get a focused image?
I cannot proof this as the objective (i.e. the glass) is broken and parts 1 and 2 got disconnected.

Cheers,
Frank

Frank Weissörtel

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Re: Carl Zeiss, Jena - Telescope for Sun Observation?
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2019, 12:24:28 AM »
Hi Simon,

thank you.

My opinion is that the leather case and all the parts inside came from Zeiss. There are a lot of design similarities to other Zeiss instruments.
Could be but I am not sure about part 3. At the moment I think part 3 is not a Zeiss part.

Would the prism screw onto the body without the use of part 3 and produce an image through the eyepiece?
Probably yes, but I can't proof that as the objective is broken and I cannot fix the objective to the conical part. Part 3 is an empty tube; there are no glass surfaces inside.

Of course, this would not explain why the eye shield part seems to be designed to swap with the existing prism cover, although this does not seem to be a very convenient design for the user and risks introducing dust into the optics. There seems to be one screw hole missing from the shield compared to the prism cover on the instrument.
I agree

Could the extension tube, shield and eyepiece be fastened together to make an alternative to using the prism?
No

Looking closely at the photos, there might be a tiny number 3 stamped on the eye shield part.
I checked again but it is some scratches that give the illusion of a 3.

Cheers,
Frank