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Voigtländer DF03 Dienstglas UF 6x24

Started by Niall McLaren, June 29, 2020, 02:55:47 am

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Niall McLaren

Not so common;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-German-Army-Voigtlander-DF03-Dienstglas-UF-6x24-Binoculars-/133441601141?nma=true&si=IjKHNscW%252BbjZzSdCvIfDJambY0M%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
"A little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing." - Little Richard

Peter Schmoll Jr.

June 29, 2020, 02:02:06 pm #1 Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 02:04:26 pm by Peter Schmoll Jr.
Not so common? ...first one I've seen !  ;D  Hope you've bought it. 8)
I think we can now assume that every german (military) binocular maker, produced the DF03.

Junior

Niall McLaren

"Not so common" is classic British understatement but I was also covering myself in case every one (except me) had one lying under the bed. ;D

I didn't buy it as I'm trying to wean myself off my addiction slowly...
"A little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing." - Little Richard

Uwe Derstroff

Hello Niall, hello Peter,
I bought it. I have 2 more, but with different Labels.
Reagrds
Uwe

Niall McLaren

June 29, 2020, 11:48:42 pm #4 Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 11:50:32 pm by Niall McLaren
Good job Uwe - I might have one like the one you posted but think my one  private purchase?
"A little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing." - Little Richard

Winfried Tuerk

June 30, 2020, 11:19:47 am #5 Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:00:10 pm by Winfried Tuerk
@Niall is the serial number 59980? If so probably made 1916. Indeed, the first D.F. 03/Dienstglas/U.F. variant in my little Voigtländer database! They made a lot of Dienstglas 6x24 ones without 03 and U.F. marks.
living without binoculars is possible but senseless - paraphrasing Loriot "living without puc is possible ..."

Winfried Tuerk

@Uwe 54782? What can be read on the right plate?

I'm always interested in your other Voigtländer serials ::) 
living without binoculars is possible but senseless - paraphrasing Loriot "living without puc is possible ..."

Peter Schmoll Jr.

Quote from: Uwe Derstroff on June 29, 2020, 10:03:19 pmI bought it.

Hello Uwe,
glad you bought it. I think it's in good hands with your collection... I can already hear it purring. :)
Until now I only knew the Voigtländer 6x24 with inscription "Dienstglas 6x24" or only "6x24". Interesting that, according to Winfrieds database, the DF03 was produced so late.

Junior

Winfried Tuerk

Late war product, notice the zinc plates and IDP and the steel locking screw...
living without binoculars is possible but senseless - paraphrasing Loriot "living without puc is possible ..."

Niall McLaren

Turns out my one (67928) doesn't have a clamping screw but came cased with  button flap so I presume private purchase.
"A little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing." - Little Richard

Simon Tomlinson

Hi, based on its appearance and the materials from which it is made, I would have guessed that this binocular numbered 59980 was made late in the war (around 1918) after materials became scarce. I was therefore interested in the attributed date of 1916. Please could you say some more about the evidence for the 1916 date? It would be interesting to learn more about dating Voigtlander binoculars from their serial numbers.

Kind regards

Simon

Winfried Tuerk

Hi Simon,

Of course, I don't know it exactly, but there are a couple of references for dating a Voigtländer serial number 60000 to the year 1916.
According to Seeger, the substitution of brass by zinc and steel in binoculars started 1916 due to diminishing resources anywhere in Imperial Germany. Regularly these zinc ones have quivers made of "Ersatzmaterial" like cupboard covered by laquered tissue and iron sheet bottoms and lids.

We find these "Kriegsausführungen" with most manufacturers in Germany when it comes to binoculars and other technical stuff.

My little Voigtländer database (only about 110 entries from 1905 to 1918) may also be an argument for dating a # of 60000 to 1916.

A FG08 dated III 16 (March 1916) has the serial number 64869. Of course it is possible that Voigtländer gave the FG08 an own serial number range (I don't think so). Otherwise, the highest serials of typical 6x24, 6x42 or 7x50 Dienstglas have 77000. These were made probably 1918.

That's only my immaterial opinion not more... ;)
living without binoculars is possible but senseless - paraphrasing Loriot "living without puc is possible ..."

Peter Schmoll Jr.

I've seen a military 10x42 Voigtländer with serial number 40xxx, which already got zinc cover plates and a steel clamping screw and a case made of non-leather material ("Ersatzstoff"). Same with a Voigtländer 8x25 with serial number 41xxx. How would you date them, Winfried? If Voigtländer started in 1916 around Serialnumber 60xxx with the zinc plates, they should be 1914? I'm skeptical with that. Maybe 40xxx is around 1916 (the 10x42 still got brass sockets, so maybe early phase of substitution?) and 60xxx is indeed (late?) 1917/18 and Simon therefore is right? I've seen a Voigtländer >Dienstglas 8x25< with 52xxx. If you compare it with Zeiss, the Dienstglas Models (6x24/6x30) started around 1917. If you compare the year stamps on Goerz FG08 or Dienstglas 8x26 with the Goerz serial number, there are often some differences. The binoculars may have stocked after production for some (short) time or (in the other way) may have produced/delivered some time after the order for the binoculars was given. So maybe the FG08 you listed, is kind of pre-dated (order given in III.16 but produced in 1917) ? But these are only my observations/interpretations. Maybe the speciemen with serial number 40xxx is the runaway. And: you got the database here ! And with 110 entrys in it, I think it has some weighty expressiveness. ;)

Junior

Winfried Tuerk

I really dont't know it exactly Junior. ;)

When it comes to the dated FG 08, I always thought these were acceptance marks given by the Army after production. Therefore, the production date of these specimens was even a little bit before the date?

And yes, you're right, there are some zinc specimens (in Ersatzstoff quivers)  in the 4xxxxx range in my database too.

The "brass plate Dienstglas with numbered leather quivers" serials go up to 40000, then we find a mixture of brass and zinc plated ones (partly the zinc plated ones are in leather quivers) from 40000 to 43000 and then only zinc ones in Ersatzstoff-quivers.

I wonder if the brass--> zinc substitution happend already in 1915 or early 1916 at Voigtländer?

We still don't now but we stay on the ball... ;)

living without binoculars is possible but senseless - paraphrasing Loriot "living without puc is possible ..."

Simon Tomlinson

Hi both, thank you for your comments, which are all very interesting.

Another factor to consider is that civilian Voigtlander binoculars are known with serial numbers in the 60,000s and brass covers. It seems unlikely that brass would be diverted from military to civilian production during the war. Also, I thought that the sale of binoculars with a magnification above 4x to civilians was prohibited during the war. This would suggest that these civilian binoculars were made after the war ended.

Kind regards

Simon