Winkelzielfernrohr (W.Z.) 2,5 x 16 Busch Rathenow fur Pkzpfw u. S.P.W (help)

Started by Micah Meyers, December 28, 2017, 08:25:03 pm

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Micah Meyers

So far I am unable to identify the use of this periscope or for which vehicle it was used.  Would greatly welcome any input or suggestion.
The top of the head has a ring base which would suggest the head extends beyond the armor of a fighting compartment.  The top of the head also rotates 360 degrees, but the image and strichplatte also rotate, meaning it is either missing a matching dovetail prism (not likely - the head assembly shows no cage or connection) or it was meant to be mounted at the side as an elbow telescope as the image and reticle are only properly erect when viewed at a 90 degree and the head rotated in line.
The lighting assembly are located far forward of the ocular as can be seen, and the base of the collar has a flange that holds the rest of the unit in place while the head rotates.    It's definitely a direct fire instrument as the strichplatte employs a (unique) /\ - ladder pattern for aiming and elevation, and does not fit any sort of implementation for bunkers, at least not from the bunker specialists I've consulted. 
Your thoughts are welcome.


   
Subject Matter Expert, German land based optical fire control systems [telescopes, periscopes, artillerie, entfernungsmesser, zielgerate, zielfernrohren, fur turm/kampfwagenkanone u. panzerabwehrkanonen, u. erdzielfernrohr f. flak systeme.]

Rodolfo Peirano

Hi Micah,

I'm not an expert in vehicle or bunker optics, but I definitely think the part of the lens had to come out somewhere.

Try to see this link:

https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=108816

http://bunkersite.com/bunkeroptik/bunkeroptik.php

https://germanmilitaryoptics.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/

may be that you find something or some person to contact.

Best wishes.
Rodolfo
everyone can learn from everyone - Rodolfo

Rodolfo Peirano

Hi again Micah,

I have found another link:

http://www.militaria-fundforum.de/archive/index.php/t-537321.html

but I think it's you on another forum, the probably unnecessary reporting.  :-[

everyone can learn from everyone - Rodolfo

Micah Meyers

Quote from: Rodolfo Peirano on December 28, 2017, 08:54:02 pm
Hi again Micah,

I have found another link:

http://www.militaria-fundforum.de/archive/index.php/t-537321.html

but I think it's you on another forum, the probably unnecessary reporting.  :-[


Yes, you found me there Rodolfo :D .  Unfortunately you can see I've been trying to figure it out for quite some time...
Subject Matter Expert, German land based optical fire control systems [telescopes, periscopes, artillerie, entfernungsmesser, zielgerate, zielfernrohren, fur turm/kampfwagenkanone u. panzerabwehrkanonen, u. erdzielfernrohr f. flak systeme.]

Peter De Laet

"Wer schaffen will, muss fröhlich sein!" Theodor Fontane, 1819-1898.

Martin Soerensen

I could imagine it to come from a bunker MG or light PAK position on the Westwall. The uncoded makers mark at least dates it early in the war (late 30's)

The optical figures are near identical to what was later in the S.R.4 (Sehrohr 4)
Although this periscope was for observation only and it had a simple Artl. reticle.

I will look in the Westwall publications and see what can be found
All good things will come to those who believe

Micah Meyers

Thank you gents!

Yes, Peter I reached out to Hilary, he was unable to determine it as well.   However I neglected to inform all of an additional detail along the neck I forgot to mention.  See pic.

In half worn-off,  raised white lettering along the side is:

        Laf. 2147   (?)      or
   
        Laf. Z147   (?)      or maybe

        Lat. 2/Z147 (?)     there may be more numbers or letters, but appears worn off...if anything strikes a bell (or a Dv.), sound off!


Lastly, the reticle image and view is only properly erect and aligned (meaning numbers are in correct form and the arrows properly facing upward) when the tube is held with the objective head to the left and up at a 45 degree angle.  The head is NOT meant to rotate, it has missing screws which held the reticle head assembly to the neck.  This means, for elevation the ENTIRE sight rotates in the same axis as a whole with the weapon, whatever it was,  I'm wondering if the sight is mounted behind or on top of the weapon, and not alongside.  The head then extends to left beyond the cupola or shield/armor.  So strange that the light kit and reticle were so located so far at the end (like a panzer's TZF) and not at the ocular.  When viewing and holding it at the 45 degree angle, the collar rings, tabs, and lighting window are all lined up to fit into something.

Quite the mystery, my friends!     
Subject Matter Expert, German land based optical fire control systems [telescopes, periscopes, artillerie, entfernungsmesser, zielgerate, zielfernrohren, fur turm/kampfwagenkanone u. panzerabwehrkanonen, u. erdzielfernrohr f. flak systeme.]

Martin Soerensen

Micah, important details, what is the distance between the metal rings, outer to outer edge?
All good things will come to those who believe